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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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1980 Honda Odyssey Fl250

I have a 1980 honda odyssey fl250. I start it up and it smokes some but its not to bad, but i have oil coming out by the muffler and when I pull the throttle it kind of bogs down like it is running rich. I just had the carb rebuilt. It has a new piston and rings and new bearings. I just put some fresh 20 to 1 fuel in it but i cant figure out why there is so much oil coming out. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

Last edited by GMS815; 11-07-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 04:35 PM
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That 20:1 mixture probably has a lot to do withthe oil coming out the exhaust. That's VERY rich on the oil, and probably explains why it's running bad too. What type of oil are you using? If it's non-synthetic, I'd go with 32:1, but I recommend a good synthetic like MC-1 mixed at 50:1 (about 12oz. to 5 gallons). My 250R's have run on this reliably and strong for years. I'd never think of running a mixture as rich as 20:1.

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2007 TRX450R
2005 TRX450R
2004 TRX450R
2003 Lonestar 250R
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 06:32 PM
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Yeah 20:1 sounds kinda rich. I would check a sevice manual or call honda for the correct ratio. Your carbs could need a little tuning also. I would also run a compression test with the new piston and rings.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by all4honda View Post
Yeah 20:1 sounds kinda rich. I would check a sevice manual or call honda for the correct ratio. Your carbs could need a little tuning also. I would also run a compression test with the new piston and rings.
Mix according to the recommendations of the oil manufacturer, NOT the service manual or Honda dealer specs. 250R's show 20:1 in the manual and stamped right on the tank, but if you mix synthetic at that ratio, you'll end up with oil spitting out the exhaust and a very poor performing engine. All the manufacturers recommend a very rich mixture for their two-strokes to cover themselves from liability for someone seizing an engine due to a lean oil mixture, this even includes manufacturers of small two-strokes in outdoor equipment like weed wackers and leaf blowers. As I said before, I use Bel-Ray MC1 mixed at 50:1, which is what Bel-Ray recommends, and have never had an oil related engine issue. I even use this in my outdoor equipment, and you wouldn't believe how well my snow blower and leaf blower start and run.

2014 CRA Senior II and Buckeye Series champ
2012 CRA Senior II champ
2011 CRA Senior II and Buckeye series Harescramble Champion
2009 CRA Senior II and Buckeye series champ.
2007 CRA Senior II, and Buckeye series Harescramble Champ.

2007 TRX450R
2005 TRX450R
2004 TRX450R
2003 Lonestar 250R
2001 Lonestar 250R.....now a 310
1986 TRX250R (restored to new)
1986 TRX250R (still in pieces)
1999 CR500
1999 CR250
1996 CR250
1986 ATC250R
1975 MR50
1999 Banshee
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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yeah i thought it might be the oil mixture because otherwise it runs great. and it says 20:1 in the clymer manual i have but it seems rich to me
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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it has good compression. so strong that sometimes its hard for the electric start to turn it over
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 07:08 PM
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I don't think I could convince myself to run 50:1 in a bike that calls for 20:1. Thats just me

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by all4honda View Post
I don't think I could convince myself to run 50:1 in a bike that calls for 20:1. Thats just me
I have never seen a bike or quad built that calls for leaner than 24:1, but again that's the manufacturer protecting itself from people who can't mix oil properly, or are just morons in general. As I said before, it's about the oil manufacturer's recommendation. The motor doesn't know the difference and you're not going to hurt it's feeleings or anything else for that matter by mix it properly, which is by the oil specs. Granted, you don't know me or my experience with engines, so you have no reason to believe me, so here's the challenge, email Bel-Ray, Amsoil, or Maxima and present them with this question. Email all of them if you want, but please post the reply here for all to see. By the way, Amsoil recommends 100:1 for their synthetic 2-stroke oil.

2014 CRA Senior II and Buckeye Series champ
2012 CRA Senior II champ
2011 CRA Senior II and Buckeye series Harescramble Champion
2009 CRA Senior II and Buckeye series champ.
2007 CRA Senior II, and Buckeye series Harescramble Champ.

2007 TRX450R
2005 TRX450R
2004 TRX450R
2003 Lonestar 250R
2001 Lonestar 250R.....now a 310
1986 TRX250R (restored to new)
1986 TRX250R (still in pieces)
1999 CR500
1999 CR250
1996 CR250
1986 ATC250R
1975 MR50
1999 Banshee

Last edited by rich250rracer; 11-08-2012 at 08:16 PM.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich250rracer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by all4honda View Post
I don't think I could convince myself to run 50:1 in a bike that calls for 20:1. Thats just me
I have never seen a bike or quad built that calls for leaner than 24:1, but again that's the manufacturer protecting itself from people who can't mix oil properly, or are just morons in general. Well, maybe but not likely. The motor doesn't know the difference and you're not going to hurt it's feeleings or anything else for that matter by mix it properly,It may not "know" in the strictest sense of the word but it does care Granted, you don't know me or my experience with engines, Correct, I don't
Consider this: Most chain saws, leaf blowers and string trimmers have a built in cooling fan. These often use a ratio in the 40/1 or 50/1 area. Most motorcycle or ATV engines do not have a cooling fan. Take into consideration what extreme temperature ranges an air cooled engine on a muddy ATV will see on the average day. Adding the extra bit of oil might be the manufactures way of protecting the engine from those that don't keep their cooling fins clean.
I do agree on using a 50/1 ratio of a good synthetic in my 1956 Evinrude 5.5 (watercooled) outboard instead of the 16/1 recommended when nothing better than a single viscosity 30 weight was available.
So, the big question is how thermally stable is this engine? Does it have a cooling fan or just rely on the rider keeping the machine moving?
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 56S View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich250rracer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by all4honda View Post
I don't think I could convince myself to run 50:1 in a bike that calls for 20:1. Thats just me
I have never seen a bike or quad built that calls for leaner than 24:1, but again that's the manufacturer protecting itself from people who can't mix oil properly, or are just morons in general. Well, maybe but not likely. The motor doesn't know the difference and you're not going to hurt it's feeleings or anything else for that matter by mix it properly,It may not "know" in the strictest sense of the word but it does care Granted, you don't know me or my experience with engines, Correct, I don't
Consider this: Most chain saws, leaf blowers and string trimmers have a built in cooling fan. These often use a ratio in the 40/1 or 50/1 area. Most motorcycle or ATV engines do not have a cooling fan. Take into consideration what extreme temperature ranges an air cooled engine on a muddy ATV will see on the average day. Adding the extra bit of oil might be the manufactures way of protecting the engine from those that don't keep their cooling fins clean.
I do agree on using a 50/1 ratio of a good synthetic in my 1956 Evinrude 5.5 (watercooled) outboard instead of the 16/1 recommended when nothing better than a single viscosity 30 weight was available.
So, the big question is how thermally stable is this engine? Does it have a cooling fan or just rely on the rider keeping the machine moving?
I go back to my challenge, contact the oil manufacturer. These oils are engineered to run at these ratios, and will not allow the engine to run properly at such a rich mixture. Do you know what power valves are that are in nearly all 2-strokes built since the early eighties? A 20:1 mixture of a synthetic oil would render them non-functional in a day's time. Now you may want to run a petroleum based oil richer, but from personal experience having rebuilt hundreds of motors and extensive tuning, I would still go no richer than 32:1 with one of these.

2014 CRA Senior II and Buckeye Series champ
2012 CRA Senior II champ
2011 CRA Senior II and Buckeye series Harescramble Champion
2009 CRA Senior II and Buckeye series champ.
2007 CRA Senior II, and Buckeye series Harescramble Champ.

2007 TRX450R
2005 TRX450R
2004 TRX450R
2003 Lonestar 250R
2001 Lonestar 250R.....now a 310
1986 TRX250R (restored to new)
1986 TRX250R (still in pieces)
1999 CR500
1999 CR250
1996 CR250
1986 ATC250R
1975 MR50
1999 Banshee

Last edited by rich250rracer; 11-09-2012 at 08:50 PM.
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